I got the chance to work with with our previous queen. Mhm. For the crown prince and crown princess' wedding. And of course the honor of knowing that your queen is using your [music] products. And even today still today, like timeless is now at the royal castle. You said you started as an apprenticeship. It is not what you see in TV. It's not the glamour you see today on so me and so on. It's hard work. It's really really really hard work. If you always got to

be prepared, you got to have your things ready. How is it to meet the queen? How did it make you feel? [music] Jesper, thank you so much for being my guest in here. As I mentioned earlier, we would go to the logistics first to have it a bit easier. I would like you to introduce yourself very briefly in two three sentences. Then I would like us to talk about your early career. How you transition from that early career from behind the bar or working into the

hospitality industry to actually working into the consultancy, starting designing glassware, and where are you right now in in the present moment? And what you took from uh from the past as values, as skills, and transpose them into your your job nowadays. So, thank you so much for being here, and I will let it to you. My pleasure. Being Thank you for inviting me. Um briefly making a long story short. Mhm. Yeah, my as you say, my name is Jesper. I come from a background of being

an educated chef and being an educated waiter. Add in on, you can say that the bar part, the sommelier part in my working years within practical work within the restaurant industry. Um and then moved to the other side of the table, going into the business part and the you say the the suppliers of the food service industry working both in food and beverage part and in taper wear part meaning the non-food part of it. And in you could say all in all I spent all my

life in and around the food service or the hospitality industry. In short. Yeah. Obviously Copenhagen has one of the most respected industries nowadays when it comes to to food, but when did you start it? How was the the industry? How was being a chef when you when you were in early career? Well, when I started as an apprentice many many years ago, actually too many years ago when I think about it, um, we were under a heavy French influence. Mhm. And we, you know, I started

out at Gentofte Hotel at that time very French inspired restaurant. And now everything was done according to the French traditional cooking style. So, we everything was not everything, but the majority part of the raw materials were flown in to fit the menus. The menus didn't fit the season like it is today, but it fitted you see the the type of restaurant and the raw materials we we had to bring in from all over. So, we had beans in from Kenya, we had meat in poultry meat

in from France and from all over instead of using local raw materials to the extent we do do today. So, you can say I was kind of part of the early days of the Scandinavian and Nordic cuisine. I was Now, some said that we were the revolution back then. We we were the ones starting what you see today when we started to revolt against this traditional French type of cooking. And we started to look more on the raw material, the seasons we had here in Denmark

and in the Nordics, than looking at what was the history of French cuisine and so on. And in that sense, this is basically you could say how the Nordic kitchen started. And the Nordic cuisine. Mhm. You said you started as an apprenticeship. Did you always knew that you want to go into the hospitality or Horeca, or it was just after the university you had to choose something? Let's go a bit deeper. Let's go back. I was I couldn't boil an egg when I started in the

kitchen. And and I had no idea that that was [snorts] the direction I was going. It it it all started, you can say, like very much my career has um with with with an opportunity that arose. I was working during my school days as a bellboy at a hotel in Copenhagen. Um and and that's how I got into the industry because I had no clue what I wanted to do. What I I knew at that point is I was not going to after the public school

going to sit for another 3 to 5 years. I wanted to use my hands. I wanted to do something creative. And then I got the chance to start as an apprentice first as a waiter. And and then as a chef. Um and I think by combining that I kind of find my say more or less my purpose in life. Because of the space you have for creativity and and and and that way around. Mhm. So, looking back into that early days, what would you say it

was an unwritten rule, let's say like that, from where you were in the kitchen and then you had to do certain things. What was an unwritten skill, basically? What How did it work? When you start in this industry as an apprentice. Mhm. Maybe not as much today, but more back then. It's now it it's tough. It is not what you see in TV. It's not the glamour you see today on so me and so on where you see a bartender standing shaking one drink at the

time. You see a waiter serving four guests, a few people around him or in the kitchen that you have all the time in the world. No. No, you don't. Mhm. It's hard work. It's really really really hard work. It's long hours. And it's a rough tone in both the restaurant, the bars, and the kitchens. And and there is a heavy workload. Mhm. Because you know everything has to be on time. Mhm. One thing you can't miss in in the industry is the timing. Mhm. So you

got to be prepared. You always got to be prepared. You got to have your things ready in order to be able to to work as fast as you can once you get the orders whether it's on a drink or it's for food or whatever you're serving. So this is the key point. So I think that was the first shock you got. Mhm. That you are actually under so much pressure and it's such a hard work. Um but once you get used to that and and you

kind of work and you find your way of dealing with that it is a unique industry. Either you love it or hate it. This is what I always say. Um and and I think it's important that you love it because it's a world where you give so much of yourself. Mhm. So from the apprentice, where did you move afterwards? How how did that path go? And as apprentice in the kitchen and what was the what was next? I was done with my my apprenticeship and and

I did my military service as you you have to here in this country. Um I was kind of at a point where I was like nobody's going to tell me what to do right now. I needed to make my own decisions. Uh so I moved to to to the US and to Canada for a couple of years. Uh, on my own just with my, you know, my my educations and I started working in Vancouver in Canada as a sous chef uh, over there. Uh, and and

like finding my own way of working after being told what to do for about 6 years. Mhm. Um, you needed to find your own path. You needed to find your own feet, so to speak. And and that's what I started over there. Um, and I was there for about 2 years. Mhm. So you you moved from Copenhagen to to Vancouver. Yeah. Have you encountered any cultural differences into the kitchen world? But where I was at the end, where we, you know, we were kind of like

moving into the new Nordic kitchen, the way we were looking at raw materials, fresh produce, the way we were do looking at nose-to-tail cooking, where we used everything on on the raw materials, whether it was meat or it was vegetables, uh, and then moving to to a more US-based Mhm. No, it was still in Canada. It was still under heavy European influence, but there was also a lot of US influence. Uh, the mindset was kind of different. The educational system within the industry is different over

there. Mhm. Um, so the skill level of the people you work with was different. Um, so they came with another background. Um, but besides that, uh, I think the the hospitality industry is one of the best industries to travel in. Mhm. Because at the end of the day, you know, you all you want to do in the kitchen is do the best you can, give your guests the best possible experience. The same goes in the bars. Um, that that you're there to perform a service. You're

there to to to sell, you can say an experience, whether it's it's it's a drinking experience or it's an eating experience. So so you can say in that sense, no, not a huge difference. Mhm. I often tend to say that the hospitality or people that are working into the hospitality behind the bar, chefs, they are quite creative persons. You got to be. That No, we we are playing with colors. We we are playing with the eye. Now, science tells us that 25% of the total dining

or drinking experience is the first impression, which means the visual. Mhm. So, so so one of the key things we we need to do is to make everything look as good as humanly possible. This this comes from from the food, the your plating, the plate you're plating it on, now that the cocktails you're making, and the glass where you're using to serve it in. All of it has to be combined and and everything You got to lift it to an experience because again, in my world,

you are not serving a drink, you're not serving a meal. No, you you you are serving an experience. Mhm. Yes, we we have the same vision. A glass, a plate, an empty glass, an empty plate means quite nothing unless you you combine multiple ingredients to make the the guest experience. Talking about the glassware, plating. Coming from a chef, now it makes a bit more sense into my mind how you you transitioned into the actually making them. What what was that moment when you you've seen the

problem in the kitchen and said, "I want to create my own uh my own plates." It It It came years later in in that sense, you know. When when I Now, the the last years in the industry, I I started looking at a broader perspective of the industry and and wanted to to kind of send move out of the practical work and that sense. Now, I loved it. I enjoyed every moment of it. Now, even though it was hard work and and sometimes really Now, you

were you were you were angry, you were you were shouting, you were crying, a lot of things at the same time. Because it is a tough industry. Um but as I said earlier, you know, I moved into to to the supply part of the industry where I first moved into Carlsberg. And and I was in charge of their hospitality or food service division in the Nordics. Um building that up. And then I moved into Nestle into to fast moving consumer goods. Also with with the focus

on the food service and the hospitality part. Um and at the end of my time in in Nestle because we had ice cream. Uh and when when we were talking to restaurants, to hotels, we were talking about serving the ice cream. And and and I was kind of in that time I was looking into saying, "Okay, how do we present the ice cream?" And and and I was feeling that we could do better on on the the the plating of the ice cream, the presentation of

the ice cream. And there I started doodling on a piece of paper, drawing some lines. Um and I actually got a porcelain company to manufacture one of my designs at that time. Which which kind of got me interesting into that part. And after that I spent 7 years as a director with the Arc International, the biggest tableware company in the world. And after that 7 years almost with Libbey, which is the biggest North American tableware manufacturer. Um and that's where I really started getting into it.

Mhm. How how did you convince the the first time when you got into after you you drew the the plate the tableware into the onto the paper? How did you convince the the manufacturer to take the designs in? Ah, a lot of small talk, I think. No, but but but think again what I'm mentioned earlier when I talk about you know the the 25% of the experience is the visual, is the first impression. Mhm. And and when you look at it and and in those days

working for Nestlé, which is you know a supplier to the industry and of course you know when when you you are a supplier, you want your products to be presented in the best way possible. Mhm. And and I'm using that and I talked to to the factory or to the brand and then they they got the points I made and and they were willing to take a chance and and we did it. Mhm. So not not hugely successful, but okay. We all have to start somewhere.

Yeah. And from there after you you work with those two major companies, how how did the entrepreneurial side came out of you? My view so far is right now you started in hospitality more like a front liner, then you went a bit into the corporate and then you went into entrepreneurship. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah, that pretty much sums it up in that sense saying you know for me stepping in into to to the biggest tableware manufacturing company in the world in those days Arc taking

over a fairly large area of course was you can say a challenge and and that's something I wanted to do. I wanted to test myself in the corporate world so to speak. Um and and we were successful in what we're doing and I could see my ideas, my thoughts was working. Um and and the same when when when I moved in in to Lippi, but I see I never forgot the creative part and one of the things that that I brought with me along the way

is is the philosophy, is the idea about the hospitality industry. Mhm. Um now, the DNA of the industry and the basic phrase is saying always doing your best, always be prepared. Uh always remember that there is somebody on the other side. There's somebody sitting at the table. So, and and in my world and and what I incorporated in my you can say in in the corporate world and to my to my teams and my colleagues I was working with is the responsibility to always do your

best and always try to get the best result for everybody. Because the easiest thing in the world is to sell once. The most difficult thing is to sell multiple times to the same company or the same people. Mhm. Which is basically the DNA of now working in a kitchen, working in a bar, you always want to do the best. Mhm. Uh and and there is a judge on everything you do. Every plate you make, every cocktail you make, there is a judge. There is a receiver

and it has to be perfect every time. Mhm. You can That's what I translated into the corporate world in the way I approach the market and I approach the customers and the projects [snorts] we were working with. Mhm. That uh that's a fantastic answer and a fantastic philosophy to to move in. Then uh one thing that I wanted to to talk about you. Let's talk about the elephant in the room, which is this one, what we we have in here as well. This is uh when

first I've seen them, it was when I met you. It was way long before I met you. And I looked at them. First, I can tell you I did not like them in the beginning when I just seen them. But then once I started to work with them, I realized that they are a lot more practical and they are a lot better from a bartending perspective than the previous ones that I I used to work with. Cuz uh you made some designs in here that are

actually usable in the bar, which most of the designers when they are coming unfortunately into the hospitality industry, they they never been into the hospitality industry. And they never designed something for the hospitality industry with the with the mind that somebody as a bartender will going to use it or as a chef will going to use it. What kind of What kind of points did you looked into it when you build the the timeless collection? Timeless is a story that started once I started my own

consultancy 12 years ago. But timeless and the other products that that I was part of developing in my corporate days working as a senior director and then top management of of the tableware companies I did is that in order to have a product being accepted in the industry because of the pace we work with behind the bars and in the kitchens because of you know the need for visual you know visually good result. You got you got to have a product which looks nice, is practical

and and we got that there was a number of factors. There was never enough storage place behind the bar or in a kitchen. There is a So there is a lot of factors. So it needs to be practical, it needs to be durable and it needs to look good. Yes. And this is some of the ground rules when you work with tableware. And this is the big difference between you can say professional tableware and tableware for use in your home. Mhm. That is that there is

some some some differences there. And we've been successful with that in in the companies I work with and and when I started my own consultancy, one of my first clients which is in the second largest glassware company in the world, Um, they hired me to redo their their global food service presence and and their distribution. And and and now, out of a corporate discussion between a consultant and the general manager of of of this company one evening where he asked me, you know, several questions about

their operation. And one of the questions he asked me, "What do you think of our assortment of glassware?" And I told him, I there is some some gaps. Mhm. some some practical, durable, good-looking bar. And he looked at me and said, "Don't be a consultant like everybody else." And I took the challenge. I went back to my hotel room and I started drawing the timeless collection. Mhm. And and it's all again all based on my experience from working practically in the kitchen, working behind the bar.

These was the key fundamentals in doing this. And and then combining that with innovation picture I had in my grandmother's old cabinet in her living room with her old cut Eastern European glassware, crystal glassware. It ended up by becoming timeless. And that's also why the name timeless came up. Mhm. So, it all transposes to to a much bigger picture let let's say like that cuz I see it as a beautiful glass and right now once you start seeing it, you see it everywhere. It's not that

you see it only into the high-end places. You see it as well into restaurants. You see it as well into bars. It has so much versatility into it that you cannot unsee it. One of the basic ideas with timeless is that it it's affordable glassware which basically looks like a million. Mhm. That that was one of the key ideas I had behind it. And being able to work with with a company also which is one of the best manufacturers of glassware, and their glass base is

very clear, almost crystal looking, um made made it possible to to do what we've been doing, and and and to be quite honest, I had never ever expected the outcome, uh and you know, Timeless being where it is today. And as you said, you know, I I can go to Singapore, uh I can go into, you know, very very well-known five, six-stars hotels, you know, big restaurants, and I can go into a corner bar, and and I see uh the glassware there. I can be in

Copenhagen, I can be in London, I can be in the US, I can be in Istanbul, Turkey, and it's there. Which of course, in in the beginning was almost overwhelming to see see that um and and to some extent a little bit frightening and saying, "Okay, what what is this? What what have we started?" Um and and you know, with with receiving so much positive feedback, um which which been I it's it's it's it's been a ride. Oh, definitely it's been a ride as well from

my travelings. Everywhere where I go, I see it. Now that I see it and I know a bit more of the story, since we've been collaborating off the camera as well, it's uh it's more and more interesting to see, "Okay, so they have it, they have it, they have it." What is next? What What other products? What What other products have you created into your line of work? Cuz we've been talking earlier, and the listeners, they probably don't know, but you've sold more than 400 million

glassware and tableware, which is not small numbers. No, it's huge numbers when you think of it, and you know, I think I'm probably the person that's the most surprised of it. Mhm. Um but I've been fortunate. You know, Timeless has you know, created its own life. The following off from people from super professional and much more talented people than I around the world has been breathtaking, actually. When you look at it, know, you look at uh very very famous mixologist and now you you see no

power competitions and you see finalists and winners using your glassware. Um it's been been tremendous. And that also made me move into to other glassware designs like the one you're sitting with which is the Alicia. And just to to have it clear shot over there. And and also moving in I made some porcelain products as well, ceramics products. And to a large extent I owe it to Timeless which which again back to what I said earlier started as part of a discussion between me and my

client and and became something unique. And I would probably be buried in a Timeless local icon. I don't know, but uh and I I think it will stick to me for the rest of my life. There is places where I go around the world where they call him call me Mr. Timeless. That is fantastic. Let's let's go a bit more into nerdiness cuz what actually makes a glass or how many types of glass are what what are the raw materials for the glass? I'm pretty sure

most of the professionals, the bartenders or chefs, they might not know what what the glass is made out of. Obviously, it's glass, but what is under that glass world? When we talk about glass, there is different types of glass. Which in their characteristic is kind of similar, but yet different. Uh no, Timeless is is made in what we call soda lime. Mhm. Glassware, which is the basically kind of the traditional glassware we use. This is the everyday glassware and the raw material, which is basically based

on sand, soda, all natural products. Mhm. Um and we say that is the basic glass, which then has been where you have moved into In the old days, you had crystal glassware. Mhm. Crystal glassware is is more or less banned today because it contained lead. It actually had to contain 23.8% lead in order to be called crystal glassware. And the lead actually helped it to become more clear. It's a clearer glass base and it has this cling sound when when you when you hit it together

or you hit it. Um and because there is metal in the glass, you are able to manufacture thinner, more delicate glassware than you is than you are when we talk about soda lime. Now, and then in all these health part of discussions and so on, um you know, the manufacturers had to remove the lead from the glassware. So, they created what is called crystalline. Mhm. Uh some call it non-lead crystal. Uh what where you use other kinds of material or metal materials to put in and

I you By having that, you have the same effect as you did with the lead. Mhm. Um and then you can move into what is called borosilicate, where you add other additives, where you make the glass more, you can say resistant for for heat. Now, glass is is a unique material. Glass is an amazing the tough material. Um Now, what what what glass doesn't like is stress. Yeah. And stress can come from use from usage, but it can also come from temperature differences. Mhm. One thing

glass absolutely hate is to go from hot to cold very fast or from cold to hot very fast. If anybody been behind the bar and they took a glass out of the dishwasher, poured some water some cold water into it, they might know exactly what it will going to happen. And that's that's also something that Now, we put into timeless when we created [clears throat] it because there is some some ways you can make it more resistant to that by by having a say similar wall

thickness this part of the glass to the bottom of the glass so you don't create tension in the glass. Mhm. The less tension, the longer it last. Uh you can say the less tension, the less stress. Yeah. And then in that sense you extend the life cycle of the glass. And this is one of the key things about again because timeless is designed for professional use, this one of the features that we put into it. You you obviously designed this a beautiful product, but you've designed

some some more of a minimalistic product, some more of a thinner um thinner walls glassware. How do you see the trends going right now from from glassware that are a bit more bold to into minimalism world? Do you see it going full on? Do you think it will come back to more of a glass or how how do you see it? You can say it it's kind of like fashion. Mhm. Um that it's a circle. Now, when when I started in in in the glassware industry

um and especially my years in Libbey where we were working with traditional US heavy DOF type of glasses. Now, uh some call it lowball, call it DOF in that sense. Um but now you had this heavy glass, which is very '20s, '30s uh basically now in the last century uh type of style glassware. And and this is has that trend has actually lived on for many, many years. Now, um and we see now that the trend is moving into to thinner glassware, more elegant glassware uh

where you you see a trend coming and it's actually coming a Spanish influence from their traditional sidra glasses and so on that most of us when growing up being tourists in Spain and in Italy has seen this type of glassware, which now 30, 40 years hits the note uh the food service industry globally. Um just like we had the trend with with the 30 30 '20s and '30s heavier glassware, we see the thinner. But I would be very surprised if if we in another 20 years

don't see the the heavier ones coming back full scale. Mhm. And now actually to be honest, when when we did the time is none of us expected it. It's now nine nine, 10 years ago since we started it. We and we were right in the middle of the wave of heavier glassware. Uh so we didn't expect it to last as long as it has, but um luckily it has, but now we see um the trend moving into thinner and I started working with the thinner glassware

designs about two to three years ago and we is now seeing it growing really, really fast. Mhm. Let's go back a bit more into that where first discussion when you you mentioned that working in the kitchen, it was a stressful. Did you took that kind of stress when you moved to the corporate ladder or how did it help you when you join when you started your own entrepreneurship career? I I think one of the lessons we learn very fast when we work in the industry is

that I don't know you I don't know you can say we get immune because you never get immune from from stress in that sense. But we get used to working under pressure. Now, we we learn very fast that one thing you can't do is to lose your head. You cannot lose the overview. And and this is one of the key things that I brought with me all along together with with the few the core values that that we talked about earlier. And this is also now

today I'm I'm lucky that I get invited to speak at business academies around the world and this is some of the things that that I try to teach uh the young people that that I'm I'm I'm talking to and and I have the pleasure of teaching is that now you can read books all your life. [snorts] That doesn't make you a good manager, a good leader in that sense. No, life makes you a good leader uh and a good director. And the experience that you pick

up along the way. And one of the things that I fortunate to have is a background in an industry that has taught me to work under pressure, to keep a cold overview, calm overview of things, learn to organize. Preparation. Now, one of the things that that you learn in a kitchen when one or standing behind a bar is that you know in two, three, four hours you have a full bar or you have a full restaurant that you have to to service. The only way you

can do that is being prepared. Now, every time you need to go out and do last minute saver actions, you get into trouble because you get out of your workflow. So, preparation and overview is everything. And these are some of the key fundamentals that I see in corporate life as well. And this is something where I work with as a consultant with major companies around the world. This is This is one of the things I learn both the young people in the companies, but also the

management there is that this is This is one of the key points. And this is one of the key you could say roads to success is planning and preparation. Mhm. Planning and preparation. That That is definitely one or two key takeaways that our listeners will will take it. I'm sure that from your travellings, all of your travellings as a consultant or in the corporate, you had some some stories. Do you have any interesting stories that you can share with us related with the glassware or related

with the hospitality? If I It's difficult to pick one. If It's difficult to pick one. Let's Let's see. So, but but I think you could say in in in general, I have had the the pleasure and been fortunate enough to travel the world probably multiple times. Um And always, you know, when I've been traveling, I always been been out. You know, I I I love to to explore new countries, new trends. Coming from the industry, of course, you visit a lot of restaurants and you visit

a lot of bars. Try to see what is going on, the trends. And I think from from doing that, you you see a lot and and you experience a lot. And you know, picking out one story in front of all is a very difficult. But I think what what what I do what I want to state is what's been a big pleasure for me is to see I would say the serious professionalism we see in in in the hospitality food service industry around the world. And

and the key points and and also see the pride in people when when when they're working. And I think that that's one of the key points and it's stating front parts of of stories. There's there's there's so many and and it it's it's a world where a lot of things happen. So let's let's keep it to that. Yes, but you you mentioned that you usually when you design you design for experiences. When you design tableware, when you design glassware, you design for experiences. What is one

of the experiences or events that you've been working on and you had to design some some products for? I've done several by now, but but but I think you're fishing for the royal wedding. I do. I do. Which which of course was an amazing experience in many ways. I got the chance to work with with our previous queen. Because I know she she invited me to do the glassware for the crown prince and crown princess wedding, which is now king and queen's wedding. And where she

also did the monogram. So she she wanted the monogram but she designed it at that that point to fit the glassware we did. So I had the pleasure and honor to meet her several times up to the wedding. And was also say at the castle during the wedding a number of security reasons and TV and stuff like that. And I had the pleasure to do extra glass wear for the royal family around it. Which which to me, of course, as a Dane and to some extent

a royalist also, of course, was a pleasure, but but also now to meet her as a person because she she is a remarkable person. And of course, the honor of knowing that then your queen is using your products and and even today still today like timeless is now at the royal castle. Mhm. How How is it to to meet the queen? How how did it make you feel that that they decided to go with you taking the designs into and making something only for their wedding?

I think that you know To me as I said it was it was it was an honor it was an experience. I was kind of surprised. I have to say that the informal way that the queen works in and and also the creativity she has herself. Because it's also one of the the situations where you know my my shut up and listen point also came in because she is extremely creative herself and and and working with her pinpointing the ideas for the shapes of the glasses

you know when and why she wanted it she had a clear idea what she wanted and and she also explained to me why she wanted it that way. And in that process you also got to learn that she actually has an amazing sense of humor which is a big part of how she she talks to people and work with so overall a really really fun experience. That that I cherish and and of course will will remember for the rest of my life. Mhm. So, now the

glasses are into into the palace. When we are talking about the the experience of of the wedding, what did made that glassware so special for for the queen? I I think because it was her gift. Mhm. No, it was not anything Yeah, it turned into the official glassware of of of the royal couple. Um but first and foremost, it was a mother's gift to her son. Mhm. Um and and it kind of showed that she she wanted it to be exactly that. Something that was was

was beautiful to look at and and useful to work and and well knowing that it would have an official place also for for the kingdom of Denmark. Yeah. By being the official glassware of them and and that to some extent it still is. Um so so I think that part was was also, you know, a huge part of the experience because at the end of the day, and and when you sit with her and and you talk, um you learn very fast that she's not just

just if you can say just about a queen, but she's first and foremost a mother. Mhm. And in this situation, uh the mother part of it came through quite clear. Mhm. And and I think it just makes you respect her even more because she is a modern mother in in many ways. Mhm. No, um from from growing up with with the royal family, you you will see that also in the way that the the the princes are brought up that she in many ways it has

a modern modern look on things. Mhm. So, you've been working with the different fields as uh as we spoke, you've been working in so many. You mentioned at one point that you you are doing talks into the Copenhagen Business School. You are doing fairs. You are doing coaching. We can take one by one but talk about speaking uh and being an ambassador which I've had the pleasure of becoming and I've done on on several occasion. It goes a little bit back to we talked about the

industry in general, the DNA of the industry uh and now what the values that we that are brought up in the industry learn along the way. Like when we talked about in the kitchen, behind the bars, the presentations, things you need to be prepared. Every time you present a plate of food or you present a cocktail. Every time you address a guest in the bar or in the restaurant, you it needs to be perfect. And this is what I have been trying to translate into the

corporate world. So, when I'm invited to do speaker sessions, whether it's for companies within the food service or hospitality industry or it's companies from completely different industries, this is kind of the message that I'm trying to belong to them is that now, we got to take responsibility of our actions. Whether you are you are selling vacuum cleaners, cars or you are selling cocktails uh or in a bar or or food in a in a restaurant, we always need to do our best. And we we we

always have to try to give the best possible service to our customers or to our guests. And it doesn't matter how big a company or how small it is, whether it's located in Turkey, in Romania, or in in Denmark. This This needs to be core values of companies. Now, you have a product or you have a service, be proud of it and make it to the best possible, no, product or service for your customers, for your guests. And I think this is core values that we

need and then need in in the corporate world just as much as we need it in the food service industry. And this is where I see uh you mentioned a little bit about young people at one point and then and and education. And I think one of the key educations that that I've learned and that I brought with me, the lessons that I learned from the industry and and what I do think a lot of young people um can bring with them from working in the

hospitality industry uh is, no, exactly that, always do your best. Always be prepared. Always knowing that there is There is, as you can say, a reaction to the actions you make. Mhm. And because in the hospitality industry, the reaction we get, the answer from what we do and the response to what we do gets immediate. If you're standing, no, behind a bar, there's no more than half a meter between you and the response to what you have created, what you have served, what you have said,

what you have done, the actions you've made. Now, you cannot hide behind a telephone, you cannot hide behind a computer screen. You are right in front of your customer, of your guest. The same in a kitchen. No, the reaction is immediate. This is why we we're a little bit like surgeons. We cannot fail. We have to have the best possible result every time. And if you manage to convert that into other jobs, into other areas of life, now you can use it along the way. And

this is a huge experience. And that you you you get at when you work in the industry. And it's by working with that every day, it becomes part of your DNA. It becomes natural. If you and I sit and discuss it, now we we can agree in 2 seconds because it's part of our DNA. But when I discuss it with a sales manager selling cars or selling machine parts somewhere in the world, they don't necessarily see it as a natural thing. No, you need to tell

them why and you need to train that. And that's why I think that and a lot of people that wants to move on from working in the hotel and restaurant industry, they can have great careers in sales and marketing. Mhm. First of all, because they're creative and they live by this every service part and the service demand, they live by it every day. Yeah. And they need to face that all the time. And when you convert that to other sales situations or commercial situations or even

manufacturing situations, now you you can be successful in doing that as well. So just because you start out in working in the kitchen or working in the restaurant or working in the bar, um now you're you don't you don't have to be stuck there all your life. A lot of people do like me, a lot we jump ship along the way and go in to say go on the other side of the desk and move into sales and marketing um of of products um of different

kind. In my case, products related to the industry, but it doesn't have to be related. I think we get some core values. Now that's a thing I'm trying to say is you you learn a lot of core values, use them in a practical sense, use them in a creative way when when you build your further career. Mhm. That that is very well said cuz I believe as well that being behind the bar or being a frontliner, you get a lot of of the values. You get

to learn how to talk with people. You get to learn how to sell. You get to learn how to present. You get to know how to public speak. You get to know how body language works. And you get to know more on the personal skills, more on the soft skills, but also you get to know the analytical skills cuz if you are manager in a bar, let's say like that, you have to do the mathematical calculations in the end of the night. So, our industry is

quite versatile in a way that you have so many paths after you you get tired or you get bored or you want to go out in a sense that you can choose. And uh there's so so so many ways that that you can do. What other topics are you talking when you are going for fairs or seminars where I know you've been working with Bocuse d'Or. What what subjects are you tapping in when you keep seminars? No, it's like when when my work with with Bocuse

d'Or has been very much based on on two things, you can say. First of all, I speak the language of the chefs. Mhm. Now, chefs can be complicated people and they can be very simple people. And but when when you're talking about events like Bocuse d'Or, which is basically the world championships of chefs. Mhm. It's a tough competition. Now, these guys they practice years to be part of it. So, there is of course as an organizer, Bocuse d'Or needs to be able to communicate with them,

make sure that everything they need are in hand. They need support in the best way possible because they fly in to an event from all over the world and they might have forgotten like last time in the European final there was a team they forgot olive oil and they found that out 15 minutes before the competition starts. Then it's my task to to solve that which we managed but it was kind of difficult in northern Norway to to chase up olive oil at 8:00 in the

morning on a Saturday morning but we managed and and things like that and then I also deal with the sponsors. And that is where my corporate side comes in because all the sponsors are suppliers to the industry so so I speak their language as well. So so that's one role. Another role is when when I'm invited to speak at at fairs like the Horry County Academy at the Ambiente Fair which is a big trade fair one of the biggest in the world. Then there is another

part there I need to speak about the the tableware industry the kitchenware industry then the the trends the needs and wants when I'm invited to speak at to the table event which is an event where suppliers meet operators hotel chains meets possible suppliers it's different topics. Being part of panels so it's all down to to say that specific event. I'm also hired by by big companies to talk about their internal things where there is some topics and how I can transfer my experience into their world

so it's different from from time to time. So it's like in a bar let's think it like that when you have different type of guests you need to in order for you to make a good hospitality or to to a great experience you need to speak their language. Is that correct? Yeah. And And I think one of the things we we learn, like you mentioned it yourself when you talk about, you know, um we we learn we face a lot of people in our industry. Uh

we face uh business people, we face uh everyday people, we face young people, we face people, we face sober people, we face drunk people. There There is a lot of people we face. We need to deal with a lot of situation, even confrontations. Mhm. Um and and I think uh one of the things we learn is we we we learn to, you can say, bark like the dogs we're among. We we we we learn to handle that part, and we learn to handle it with a

smile. Yeah. Because we always when when we are um in especially in management positions uh behind a bar or in a restaurant, when when there is a conflict, which will happen eventually, because there is alcohol involved and there's a lot of people involved, um we learn to deal with it, and we need need to adapt. Another thing, this is one of the things that when when you put your experience down in the basket, and you pull them up when you when you have a task to

fulfill, uh it's it's talents or skills you have developed, which you can use in the proper ways, which is again all part of what I'm saying, being prepared, planning, and and using the things you have learned. And that's where I I find that working in the hotel and restaurant industry or food service or hospitality, whatever you call it, uh gives us a very big palette, very wide palette of skills uh that we learn and we deal with on a daily basis that we can use further

on in life. Yeah, one one example that pops up to my mind that I know you you are working on it to it, it's uh exactly the the hem glassware and the hem tableware that you you created, and I believe that transposes the best of uh the work in the field, the work with major companies, and putting a product onto the table that fits the need of the today's age. So, I would really like to to talk a bit more about that project cuz I know

you made it with the tableware brokers, right? So, yeah, we'll say I I'm I'm not afraid to try new things, and and and some people um and people close to me around me will say probably too many things, but um the project you're mentioning, my my hemp project or I call it my hippie project, um is basically based back to to my chef. Mhm. Now, uh when when we talked about being part of the new wave uh in Danish cuisine, Nordic cuisine, nose where we actually

brought back some old values, nose-to-tail cooking. Now, when you have an animal, use the entire animal. When you have, you know, vegetables, fruits, use everything. Um and I was kind of looking at saying it's got to be possible to find substitute materials to plastic, to melamine, you know, um because I really had a hard time accepting the fact that you know, when we look at our kids in kindergartens, when we look at people in hospitals, when we look at people, our our older people living in

retirement homes, why should they eat off a melamine plate? Which which basically contains formaldehyde, which means that in order to manufacture it in the cheapest way possible, the fastest way possible, and make it last as long as possible, you add on additives which are not good for you. So, and and actually, don't we love our kids? Don't we don't we respect our elders? Isn't it enough to say, you know, you need some decent tableware. Mhm. Now, it might be that porcelain is not the perfect tool

for these institutions, but we got to find other things. We cannot accept that if they are having, you know, in a kindergarten, if kids are running around playing outside and there is hot cocoa cocoa served in the winter time and you come in 5 minutes late, they reheat your cocoa in the melamine mug in a microwave and it actually gives away from all the hot fumes. Um to me, that is that is not respect. This is not common sense. Mhm. To me, this is budget. This

is thinking on money instead of the kids um in in this situation. So, I started looking into it and and we found out that actually by mixing hemp fibers um and it's and even on top of that, even also, you know, leftover uh hemp from the textile industry with different natural products, we could create a raw material where we can actually substitute plastic and melamine in a product that is 100% biodegradable, dishwashable, reusable, um and only semi or a small fraction more expensive than the product

being used today. Uh so, not only do we replace something which is not good for you health-wise, uh which is not recyclable. No, matter of fact is that on melamine, when we talk about melamine, is that now, when humanity dies out, the cockroaches will still be eating or drinking of melamine products because we cannot get rid of them because we are not allowed to burn them. Uh so, it minimizes what we can use them for afterwards, where our products, if you throw it in in the

nature, it's gone within 24 months. Wow. Without leaving any kind of microplastic or anything. So, so I think the values into that also comes from the values from the kitchen, the values from our industry, known as respect to the materials you're working for, the environment you're living in, and and showing respect to that. [snorts] And that's what I'm trying to do. And and with with with the create the creation of of this end product and the company called Responsible Solutions where we are working in it

with these things. It's is very much related back to to this part. Then you also mentioned Nordic Tableware Brokers. Nordic Tableware Brokers cuz I know that this is one of your latest projects. Is that correct? is a project we started last year. Yeah. And and Nordic Tableware Brokers is a different kind of no, tableware, kitchenware distribution company. Actually, we are more like a brand house. We we are fortunate to work with some very very good brands. Most of the brands I've had as clients or partners

in the consultancy. And our approach to the market is slightly different because we always look at from the end consumers point of view. Whether we are selling into retail or we are selling into to the hospitality or food service industry. When when we are selling into the food service industry, we are talking directly to the end users. We are talking to the restaurants. We are talking to the hotels. And we are advising them to buy products which is suited for exactly their use. So, because the

needs and wants of a corporate canteen or a hospital or a hotel five-star hotel to what a two-star hotel or a high-end restaurant to a cafe to a to a bar, uh to like what we call bodegas in Denmark. All of them have different needs and wants. And we believe and I believe strongly in that we need to advise them to buy the best possible product for exactly their use. Uh and and in that sense you make a difference. You add value. And and part of

the DNA that I've taken with me from all the way from the kitchen and and the bar is adding value. Now, in my world in a in kitchen and in in a bar, you sell an experience as I mentioned earlier. You don't sell a cocktail. You don't sell a meal, you sell an experience. So, you add value in that sense to people's life by giving that experience. And now when we look at the total experience in a bar and a restaurant is that every guest we

have in from the end to the room to the exit, they should have the best possible experience. We should add value to their evening, to their week, to their month, to their life. If they come in angry, sad, heartbroken, we should try to put them in a good mood and that is what people in the industry are trying to do to the best of our abilities. The same when you are selling things. You need to look at each customer differently. You need to look at their

world. And you need to make now their experience the best possible experience. That's why we look at it this way and and now by doing this and having a flexible approach to it because you need a flexible approach to it. You need to have a big toolbox when you have this view of the world. We've been fortunate enough to grow rapidly and very very fast within the last 12 months. That uh, that is impressive. Talking about the last, uh, 2 months, how how do you see

the next, uh, 12 months or maybe next, uh, 2 years? What, uh, what kind of other future plans do do you have up to your sleeves? Depends on the geopolitical [laughter] world life that different heads of states have around the world. Um, no, I I think I think, um, we we are under some tremendous trends at the moment. And you know, by living and working in the Nordic region, we of course have a huge focus on sustainability, the environment, and not only the you can say

then the natural environment, but also social environment. Um, and that part and and I think this this is a growing trend globally. Um, and and this is something that that we we need to adapt to. So, when we are talking about products and raw materials, it will be more and more in that sense operational-wise. Um, we need to look at the the the social environment, you know, uh, the human part of it. And I think all of this will have an impact on how we look

at things. Um, to me, you can say, I'm probably focusing more local than global um, for the future. Now, we've been fortunate enough with Nordic Timber and Brokers and now also to to launch in North America. Uh, for good and for bad at the moment, um, but I have a strong feeling, um, that we as your Nordic people and as European with the brands and the products we have here can make a huge difference in America. We see, uh, especially on the East Coast and West

Coast, trends towards sustainability, the environment, and so on. The Midwest in the US is slightly different, but hopefully it will come. Um, so we see a growing interest for European brands, European products in in North America. So we are we working with that focus on that part. And we we want to grow now the local part also in the Nordic. We we with Nordic Tabletop Tableware Brokers we we are looking into getting restaurants and hotels and larger operations as well as private people to buy more

local product want to buy European products. Now in in in our company we don't work with any manufacturers from Asia. We only work with European manufacturers because I need I truly believe we need to support local manufacturing. And that goes both Nordic and European. And we also need to look at the CO2 footprint. We have a lot of responsibilities we need to look at as a sales company. And we also have responsibility as people. To and that we to the best of our ability try to

purchase locally and and work with local manufacturers and support them. You said purchase local. What should be some key features that a manager or a decision maker should look into it when they are deciding to change their tableware or their glassware? I think to now looking at it in an overview in the Nordic right now we get a lot of support in that from from the governments with with with the CO2 taxes and the footprint taxes they are looking at and and and they are implementing.

Now European Union will do the same. So I think that now from we are talking about uh, food and beverage managers or purchasing departments at hotel chains and restaurant chains. And and to a large extent also, you can say retail chains and larger retail distributors and companies. We we need to look again looking into buying locally. Uh, as I mentioned earlier because it's a matter of the CO2 footprint, but it's also a matter of strengthening European manufacturing. Mhm. And I think everybody that went through COVID

Yeah. as a buyer, as a supplier, as an operator, suddenly found out that it's not that easy to get your products from from a far distance when crisis hit. And also after COVID, there was huge problems with with global transportation. Um, so suddenly the timelines they all fell like cards in the wind and and a lot of well, I could say operations suddenly didn't get have access to the products they usually have. Mhm. And you can avoid that by buying locally because the transportation distances are

are shorter. So I think that is also a view. And again, the values of traditional European manufacturing and this is something that that that I I really held dear is that like when we talk to our Portuguese partners manufacturing porcelain ceramics, flatware, that there is a pride in what they do. There is a tradition. Uh, now our our Portuguese flatware company, they only manufacture products from recycled steel and recycled European steel. Now, they could have like most other big manufacturers of flatware gone to source their

products in China making a much bigger margin, a much bigger profit. No, it's a family company. The values say we got to make the best possible products locally in Portugal, locally in Europe. We we need to to do it as environmentally safe as possible. So, they've taken a responsibility and then now we as their partners also take a responsibility in promoting it in the best way possible. And also trying to educate our customers, our partners to do the same. And then I think now we're all

part of a food chain and we can all make a difference, large or small. And I think we owe that to the next generation and the next generation. So, yes, but talking about the the future plans, what would you see the future of the industry going in towards what direction will go? I think if we look back at I'll look at before COVID or the pandemic and after the pandemic. We in in Denmark has been extremely lucky compared to many other countries in the world. And

and also can say we in the Nordic region have been luckier than many other places. When we talk about the the current situation of the the hotel and restaurant industry, we we're experiencing a huge growth. And now our Nordic cuisine as we spoke about earlier has become unique in the world. Now, our chefs, uh, they and Danish Nordic chefs around the world is is becoming rock and roll stars to some extent, put it like that. You know, we we see now we talked about my work

with Bocuse d'Or, which is always a pleasure. Um, and it's even bigger pleasure as a Nordic chef because we are always in top five. Um, you know, and all the Nordic countries are usually also also always in top 10. Uh, so the tourism industry, the gastro tourism industry that that we are experiencing Denmark at the moment and have been for the past year or so especially, maybe couple of years. Um, it's growing and I think it will continue to grow. Um, and when I talk to

to people around the world, um, I'm I was shocked in the beginning, um, but I'm getting more and more used to hearing the phrase that first we booked the tables at the restaurant and then we booked the hotel. Which is so illogical, but but but kind of funny when you look at it as saying, "This is the magnet we have as a country based on the food we make, the experience we give people when they visit our restaurants and our bars because they see us as

some of the best in the world." In precisely that. And I see that moving into Norway. Uh, Norway had a hard couple of years, um, but like Denmark, they they came out of the pandemic pretty well. Uh, this year I see very positive signs in Sweden when I talk to people and and colleagues and friends in the industry over there. Uh, they they had a rough 24 and 25, but they're quite positive about 26 from exactly that, we see we see the tourism coming. Unfortunately, our

friends in Finland have a rougher time. And then they kind of is a little bit stuck in in in in the bad wheel, you can put it like that. First with the pandemic, then we came out of the pandemic and then came the conflict in Ukraine. They have the longest border against Russia. They are close to Ukraine. So not a lot of like choose Finland as the first pick. And then and Iceland to some extent is is far out in the ocean. But but are also

experiencing this trend of gastro tourism. So so I think for us in and around the hospitality of of hotel and restaurant industry, the signs are very positive. And the food work that that to some extent I'm proud to say that was part of creating many years ago with with in the introduction of the Nordic cuisine. And the focus we we have now on the cocktail experience, mocktails, everything that happens in the bar area, the creativity we we show in our industry. The fruits are there now.

And to me it's always a pleasure when I'm in Southeast Asia talking to to Japanese, Chinese people, Singaporean people or I'm in North America or around Europe. Imagine going to Italy and and and you sit in Milano and you talk to people and they're telling you with a smile about their great experiences wining and dining in Copenhagen. Yep. How much they enjoy coming here and you hear the same in the US in Southeast Asia. And there I think we in in the industry and around the

industry can be proud. Yeah. And it's also show us that, you know, we we have something unique. And if we are smart, and we play our cards right, we have something that can build for the future. And we we have an industry which is a huge PR thing for for the Kingdom of Denmark, for the Nordic region, and for for our culture. And and it it it is a unique business card and puts us in a unique spot in the gastronomy world. And when I say

no gastronomy, I also mean mythology and and other parts of the industry. But but I think we are in a unique spot, and and and we can explore that even further. I I believe the same, and I believe that the most more and more people, more and more new generation should also look into the hospitality or Horeca or cuisine more like a job, cuz until now I have a feeling that some people, to some sort of an extent, they did not choose to to be a

bartender. But now with the rise of AI and and all of the artificial intelligence, this people industries or human industries will going to have a bit of more of a highlight where you need to be present, where people are seeking connection, cuz that might be one of the reasons as well that people from all over the world to to dine and wine in in Denmark for that hospitality, for that human interaction, and even if and I I apologize for that, Denmark has a bit of a

bad reputation of Danish people being cold people, that's I believe it's a misconception. I don't know if it's a mis- misconception. I I think Nordic people in general Yes. And and Danes are probably uh the warmest of of the Nordic can say countries in that sense. Um We we are kind of reserved in that way. We're with Danes being the most European of of the Nordic. But but I think in general when we look at the industry here is that No, we the Nordic has always

been seen as you know as entrepreneurs. All the way back from from the Viking days. In many ways you can say for good and for bad. The Vikings were explorers. But they created the you know the way to navigate at sea many many many many many years ago way before anybody else was thinking in in that direction at least on the same scale. And then they were they were doing new things. They were taking new paths. And and we've been doing the same with with the

kitchen. And now back when I entered the industry now you only worked in the industry to finance your studies. Yeah. That was kind of like the the way it was looked at. Now then then came the new waves and suddenly the chefs became the rock and roll stars now throughout the '90s and '90s and beginning of the 2000s like now you started to go on TV. You couldn't turn on a channel and there was a cooking show or a bar show. And it's been been going

in that way. So so very often when I talk to you talk to young people today is saying that don't be afraid to jump into the industry. Mhm. Because it gives you much more than just a job much more than just an education. As I said earlier on you either love it or you hate it. Yeah. But if you can if you can adapt to the industry, it gives you such a huge lockage to move on even into two two more corporate business type of jobs

later on maybe. Now, one of the last jobs I had practical in the industry was a corporate so where I was part of the management of uh some of the very very popular restaurants in the '90s there, Peder Oxe, Bøf & Ost, Pasta Pasta, Peder Oxe's Wine Cellar. And now, the majority of our staff was students or ex-students. And they even went after they finished their their studies and they started working as accountants, as lawyers, as in multiple other jobs, they worked in the restaurants during

the weekend or during the evenings. Why did they do that? Because they passed their years as students. They were starting to make now a good income. Mhm. But they loved the industry, the pulse, the vibes, the interaction between people, and actually also they the interaction with your guests. Yep. Like we talked about several times here, the conflict solving, now the the the now, the situations you need to solve along the way, them being part of giving an experience to the guest. They they loved that vibe.

They they the pulse there um attracted them. This is again, when we we look at it, it's much more than just a job. Yep. It's a lifestyle. And and I think building that into the industry as we have done along the way has moved it into where you can innovate. But because once you're happy with what you do, once you feel you you you get now we'll say what you put into it back again, you also innovate, you're you're you're being creative, and this is part

of where we'll say we in the Nordics are slightly different than many other areas of the world. And and we we we we do that part, and this has led us to where we are today. So, I think for many ways in many ways that it's actually an excellent entrance door. Yeah. To corporate life, to a corporate career later on, because the luggage you get with you is extremely versatile and makes you able to to face a lot of different situations. Yeah. Completely agree on that

one. So, there we managed to move from Nordic cuisine into educational questions, but Yeah. uh I think it's all many ways it's linked together. It is. A pretty good example is this glass. Yeah. This glass is a DOF glass. Mhm. But, why doesn't it have straight walls? That I know. It's because of the stacking. Yes. And if you look at it, why does it have panels on the inside? That I know again because we spoke [laughter] last time, but Because it makes it impossible for it

to get stuck on the other glasses when you stack the glass too hot, because there's always air around it. Yeah. This is pretty much summing up, you can say, a career in the hotel and restaurant industry, where you see a problem, and you look at it and say, "How can I solve that problem?" Because that problem is annoying, because not only does the glassware break, but it also takes too much of your time now separating the glass, and it's removing your focus from servicing your guest.

Yeah. And because time is an issue for us in servicing guest and giving them the experience we want them to have, we need to find a solution. We cannot put it away and say I will solve it later on. But, we need to do something about it. I've taken that part with me into when my designing part, when I look at the products. And uh personally, I believe that's one of the the key features of what makes a good designer to a great designer to into

our industry. We've probably all been there where you walk into a restaurant or you walk into a hotel as a bartender and you walk behind the bar and you look at the station and you see who built this station. Cuz that architect was never behind the bar. And that uh it's a plus when you move out of this industry, when you know what the problems are and come up with a solution exactly for that uh that problem. Yeah, but I think in many ways, but it's

also you mentioned earlier in our talks about you know, managing a bar, managing a restaurant. You know, the big difference between being a manager in a bar or in a restaurant and being a manager in an office building is that we we know we will face conflicts. Yeah. It can be with guests, but it can also be with the staff. Yeah. Because everybody's under pressure. And time is an issue. We need to solve that immediately. 100%. We cannot push it away, we cannot push it to

later, which you can do in a corporate office. And one thing I've learned moving into the corporate world is that there is a lot of conflicts or you can say awkward situations being hidden under the rock. Mhm. And that doesn't make them go away. [laughter] Actually, it makes them grow. But in our world, when we're looking at the hotels and restaurants, we cannot afford that. Mhm. We need to solve it. Now, I mentioned before like one of my last jobs was was at Operasquare. Now, some

evenings December Thursday, Friday, Saturday Christmas dinners, Christmas lunches. I had a waiting list of 2 to 3 hours in all the restaurants. I had 120 young women working the floor. That's That's That's and I'm not saying women, also young men. I'm not But having so many young people, having so much time pressure, having so much pressure create conflicts. Mhm. And growth path for conflicts. Every time you as a manager saw something starting, you need to address it. But you need to do it in a way

where nobody gets offended or as few people as possible get offended and it's possible to move on. Mhm. This is problem solving on hand. Yeah. And it doesn't allow you to put anything aside for later. You need to find ways because you need people to do 100% of their put in 110% of their ability now there and now. Mhm. So, you need to find ways to solve it. This is another part of the luggage we're talking about that you're bringing with you, that you can transfer

in and I have to transfer in when I look at designing a product or or the other things in my world today where we can we can we can mold it and we can adapt it to the situations we're in. How do you stay sharp? How do you stay sharp with this fast-moving with the Instagram with all of the things moving that fast into the hospitality or Horeca world? How do you stay updated? Where do you pick up your news in terms of glassware, in terms

of Horeca, what is moving and I think first of all, I love what I do. Mhm. I'm extremely fortunate. Uh no, I I can truly say that um I I love what I do. I'm also fortunate enough to to be able to pick uh and and and pick to pick the things that that I want to do, that I like to do. And and we all know when we do things we love, you know, it's a lot easier. Yep. You don't count the hours. You you

don't see it uh as a pressure point in that sense. And I think, you know, been as long as the industry as I have, you also get positively lazy. You know, you don't try to change uh knowledge about everything. You know, you chase knowledge about the things that interest you, pursue you. Um and uh by doing that and and having a great network. Mhm. You know, in in this industry like any other industry, network is important. Having good people around you uh makes it possible for

me to to follow um you can say global trends in that sense. You know, uh ongoings in in the industry, uh news and and what is happening. Um And and of course, um I'm very curious um and and I stick my nose into a lot of different things um because I I want to learn. You know, for me every day is a new opportunity to learn. And you know, the day we stop learning is the day we stop living Yeah. in my world. Um and and

I think it's it's a key point for us working in in a creative industry that we we got to continue learning. We see influence. We seek influence. And this is like I said earlier, when I travel, I love to go out and I love to see people working, creative people working, people that are much more creative and much smarter than me. No, I learn from them. I know, I have a basic saying is that you learn more by watching and and listening than by talking. Mhm.

Nobody has [clears throat] ever learned anything by babbling and talking all the time, but they have learned from listening and from viewing and watching people work. And and this is the key point. I know, I I try to to learn. And that's why I love to be around creative people and professional people. Mhm. Indeed, it is. Indeed, it is. And I can speak for myself. I'm learning every single time when I'm sitting on the other side of the the table in here from every guest that

I have to to my podcast and for you from you as and thank you, Jesper, and thank you for being here. Usually, I like to to close this podcast with the two questions. One question that it's pretty much for everybody. And it's a recurring question. And one question that is tailor-made for you. Which one would you like me to to start with? Go ahead. Pick one you the one you want to ask first. Up to you. Okay. I think I already know and we already went

through this one, but I still want to to phrase it. What motivates you to still working with or in What motivates you to still working in the hospitality and Horeca industry every day? There's several things. I think the the creative challenge that I feel I face every day from working with an in an industry filled with extremely talented people. Mhm. Which means that I also need to stay sharp. Yeah. If if I want to be uh a consultant uh the way I want to consult where

I make a difference. Um I need to stay sharp and I need to stay probably two steps ahead of my clients uh that that I work with. Uh and also as a designer when we look at that part um I need to stay two steps ahead of all the creative bartenders or chefs that use my designs. So, and that's that that they got to keep me on my toes. Um it it's it's uh ever moving industry. We're always moving forward. And now the young professionals are

coming up. They are setting the boundaries for the future. And all us now older people uh old farts in the industry, we need to try and catch up. We need to start try and and and keep our place in it, too. And and and I think that keeps you awake and that challenges me. Uh and then I I love to work with people. I love I love to to be creative. Um so, I think that fills my day and that's why I do what I do.

Mhm. And then I have a tailor-made question for you because you've designed countless uh countless glassware and tableware. You work with the major companies in the world. If you have to go back to younger self somewhere in the transition between uh the corporate and uh consultancy or even earlier from the frontline to corporate, what would be one advice that you would give to yourself? That's a pretty good question. Um now I think I've I never had a career plan. Mhm. I've always like gone with the

flow if you can put it like that. Um I loved my days working practically in the kitchen or in the restaurant or in the bar. Um I felt that that when I left that part and moved into corporate, I was ready for the next step. I had no career plan saying, "I want to reach that position, or that position." Mhm. No, the same when I went No, I came to a point where I I I could say to some extent No, I felt I did my

part in the corporate world. I have had enough of board meetings, corporate meetings, no sitting discussions with staffs and union, and I wanted to work on my own and see what difference I could make there. Along that road came the the the designing part. Um so, for me and looking back, uh I would say if I go way back, I would say my advice to myself would be keep your eyes and ears open. Shut up and learn. Um And and I think by doing that, um

uh it helped me along the way. Um No, would have I learned more doing it earlier than I did? Um because I have to be honest to say that No, I was not that old when when the kitchen I was managing got the Michelin star. Mhm. Uh and I became cocky as hell. No, I had the hugest ego. And and And that's why I today also make fun of saying, you know, I cannot invite five of my chef friends to my birthday because the egos don't

fit my living room. Mhm. So, so and looking back at that, you know, I might have said to myself, "Forget about it." Because there's always somebody better out there than you, no more creative than you, more talented than you. So, like and going back to the shut up and listen and learn part. Maybe should have been said a little bit earlier. Mhm. Oh, well, I think that's a very good wrap-up to to this episode. And uh I'm very glad that you've been one of my guests

in here and I would really want to let our listeners who reached this point let I would want you to let them know where they can find you. If they want to find you. They they can find me on Instagram or LinkedIn where I'm I'm trying to to stay a little bit active. And that's you know can always reach out to me by personal message through Twitter and also through Instagram or LinkedIn. There's my mails are also out there my home page. If you find my

telephone number please don't call me because I can be anywhere around the world and I'm pretty cranky if you wake up before I have my morning coffee. [laughter] But enough if I can help anybody along the way they are more than welcome to contact me but please do it by private message or by email. For sure and I can guarantee that he will answer. That's actually how how we met as well. We we met on LinkedIn. Yeah. Primarily and then we started collaborating. Yesper thank you

so much for being my guest and thank you thank you for taking your time to to be a guest to the Barbox show. Thank you. having me. Thank you. [music] Hey. Hey.